EXCLUSIVE | The Kani Kusruti Effect: Inspiring a New Generation of Actors with Bold Choices Like ‘All We Imagine As Light’ and ‘Girls Will Be Girls’

There are solely a handful of Indian movies that defy the traditional description and invite the audiences right into a world that may solely be understood by expertise slightly than clarification. One such movie is Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’. Set in opposition to the bustling but remoted backdrop of Mumbai, this cinematic triumph transcends narrative boundaries to create one thing profound and deeply private. Through a shocking mixture of magical realism and grounded storytelling, it delves into themes of affection, loss, identification, and self-discovery. Apart from the storytelling, the cinematography by Ranabir Das, elevates the movie to an ethereal realm, capturing the stark contrasts of Mumbai’s city panorama with poetic finesse. The digicam lingers on the town’s chaos and quiet, utilizing gentle and shadow to reflect the internal worlds of its characters.

The inventive brilliance has not gone unnoticed, as ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT‘ has garnered widespread acclaim and a plethora of prestigious accolades on the worldwide competition circuit. For Payal and Ranabir, this roaring success is one thing that they by no means imagined, as their focus was solely on telling an genuine and deeply private story. After profitable the Grand Prix accolade at this 12 months’s Cannes, the movie has solidified its place as a landmark in modern Indian cinema. It’s so good to see an Indian filmmaker garnering a lot success on the world stage, and changing into the first-ever feminine filmmaker from India to obtain a Best Director nod on the Golden Globes. Recently, I had the fortune of speaking to Payal Kapadia, and DOP Ranabir Das, about their movie and the way they created such a powerful world the place moments of magical realism are dropped at life by surreal imagery.

Here’s the FULL INTERVIEW:

Aayush Sharma: Congratulations on the unbelievable win for ‘All We Imagine As Light’. The previous few days will need to have been a whirlwind of feelings, from press engagements to screenings, culminating on this well-deserved triumph. How does it really feel to see all of the laborious work and fervour behind this movie being celebrated on such a grand stage? Has the magnitude of this achievement actually sunk in but?

Payal Kapadia: It’s been actually greater than we ever imagined for the movie. When we have been in Cannes, it already felt so huge. Every time one thing else occurs, we really feel like we wish to pinch ourselves. We labored on the movie for a very long time—particularly the 2 of us (Payal and Ranabir Das), since we write collectively as effectively. It’s been a venture we’ve labored on, on and off, for nearly six or seven years, and intensely over the previous 4 years. Sometimes, you’re feeling prefer it’s over, and that itself feels so bizarre.

Aayush Sharma: The metropolis of Mumbai performs such a central function in your movie. How did you method portraying Mumbai not simply as a setting however as a personality in itself, with its heartbeat and tales?

Payal Kapadia: I believe it’s as a result of, you realize once you make a movie—or a minimum of once I make a movie—it’s type of like a response to your environment. What forces itself into the movie is one thing that considerations you or one thing you see on a regular basis, and also you get bothered by it. The contradictions of Mumbai, I believe, are very a lot a part of our day by day life. For the previous 5 years, we have now been residing right here collectively. On one facet, you see all people transferring right here—particularly within the movie trade—as a result of all our mates from FTII additionally moved to Mumbai. In some senses, it’s type of liberating as a result of you’ve got your individual type of freedom right here to do issues. But it’s additionally a metropolis that may be very merciless. It’s a really costly metropolis, not very comfy to navigate or journey in day-after-day, contemplating the period of time it takes. There can be fixed gentrification going down. It’s a metropolis that’s at all times in a state of change as a result of the individuals who include quite a lot of issue can be very simply made to go away. We particularly noticed that in the course of the COVID time. It’s additionally a metropolis that’s geographically altering as a result of it’s like an island metropolis that turned connected to the peninsula. And now, land reclamation can be going down. So even bodily, the town is like an amoeba. I used to be very considering all these items in regards to the metropolis, and a few of it makes us very offended additionally.

Ranabir Das: In basic, Mumbai is a metropolis the place so many movies are shot. But in only a few movies will we truly see the town. We simply needed to doc some senses of now—a time now—that can stay someplace.

Payal Kapadia: Because I believe that Mohammad Ali Road, that space, can even someday get gentrified and be shot. And I really feel like we needed to additionally bear in mind completely different, completely different locations.

Aayush Sharma: The shift from the bustling city panorama of Mumbai to the serene coastal village marks a major tonal change. How did you conceptualize this transition, and what does it signify within the bigger context of the story?

Ranabir Das: Well, on some ranges, it’s very fundamental. Like, we simply needed a shift, a change in season. Yeah. Just a little little bit of time has passed by between the earlier occasions and what’s to comply with. In that sense, the biggest shift, I believe, is that the primary half could be very cloudy, and the second half could be very shiny solar. The shade palette additionally shifts within the course of. But we needed the second half to have a barely completely different feeling of time as effectively. We needed it to be only one lengthy day, this complete second half. So we needed to really feel the time a bit of bit extra. We needed to be a bit of nearer to the characters. In the town, we at all times included the town a bit of bit within the background or in some aircraft. There’s at all times some presence of the town creeping in. But over right here, we needed to be bodily nearer to the characters and be with them extra.

Payal Kapadia: The kind of this village, however our intention a minimum of was to someplace keep away from that an excessive amount of, okay, and being with the character. Yeah, like that’s why most—a minimum of what we tried, I don’t know the way a lot of it got here by—however quite a lot of time, Riku would bleach out among the background when it was a really broad shot, for instance, as a result of the daylight wouldn’t type of, you realize, simply keep on with that cliche of a reasonably place. Something that, you realize, that warmth—I don’t know if you’re from Delhi, however I assume in Delhi additionally, in the summertime, that very prime solar is like, it’s not very nice. So that feeling, we needed to type of get. I believe, yeah, as a result of Mumbai appears so completely different, I believe that distinction has been a lot.

Aayush Sharma: The movie opens with a documentary-style montage of avenue scenes and migrant voices. How did your background in documentary filmmaking form this method, and what was your intent behind mixing this model with fiction?

Payal Kapadia: You know, like, I believe each of us are very process-driven filmmakers. So quite a lot of time, we find yourself doing quite a lot of analysis and, you realize, not even simply analysis—once we go for location scouting, you sit, you chat with individuals, you’ve got chai, you eat, or we simply meet individuals for the sake of, you realize, understanding issues higher. While doing that, we have been getting quite a lot of completely different tales from individuals—individuals have been telling us, and our mates have been additionally telling us. So we needed to maintain the essence of these conversations someway within the movie, although we didn’t know the way. I believe it was the identical with our earlier movie too—like, quite a lot of the stuff that’s there comes out later due to interactions with actuality. You can think about some issues, you write sure issues, you’ve got a script, and the whole lot, after which actuality comes and says, ‘Hello,’ which is good. I actually take pleasure in that, and I believe we actually take pleasure in that. So we needed to maintain a sense of these conversations and random interactions. We additionally felt like someway it gave a type of symphony of the town, with all of the individuals right here. It’s a metropolis made up of individuals from completely different elements of the state, and completely different elements of the nation, and also you hear so many languages in Mumbai. It’s a really various house. So we needed to have a jhalak of that within the movie.

Ranabir Das: Also, we felt that it was one thing that was treating it like there are such a lot of tales floating round, and we’re coming into certainly one of them. Just one factor we’re delving into deeper, after which that fiction additionally turns into a bit of bit extra actual after that.

Aayush Sharma: The movie is devoted to your grandmother and your buddy who’s a nurse. How did their lives and experiences encourage the story of All We Imagine as Light, and what private connections formed your method to telling this story?

Payal Kapadia: For me, my grandmother’s story has been a nagging string for all my movies up to now. Every movie has this copy in it. All my quick movies have it. Basically, when she was in her 90s, she began shedding her reminiscence. So, I advised her, simply to type of maintain the thoughts transferring, ‘Why don’t you write a diary?’ So, she began writing the diary. And someway, within the diary, this husband of hers used to maintain showing. Now, she was 97 or 96 or one thing like this. Her husband died when she was 50. So, all these years, she was single. But at the moment, it was he who was popping out, coming in her desires and coming nearly like an individual, like a ghost, and was annoying her. So, she was very irritated. I believe she didn’t get together with him very a lot. So, I used to be considering lots about that, like this sort of factor that quite a lot of ladies round me—like they’re unbiased, they’re residing alone, working jobs, financially unbiased—however these males don’t appear to go. So, I used to be considering lots about that, and like, type of, you realize, that our concepts in India, we have now to take a look at our feminism in a manner, preserving these sorts of issues in thoughts. At least for me, that is my perspective. Everybody has their very own. So, like, it’s these lingering males who we don’t need them to outline us, however they’re there. Now, what to do? So, that’s type of what this movie is about. Like, this Prabha additionally, you realize, type of making an attempt to go away this chap who simply popped up out of nowhere. So, yeah, that’s it.

For the nurse, she was very open to telling me all in regards to the early…like, all these things about studying in regards to the placenta, how their coaching was once. So, that’s what bought me into the nursing occupation—it’s due to all this. She used to inform me about the way it was for them after they have been college students and, you realize, the type of issues on a day-to-day foundation, the way it was. So, I bought very…like, she was very open to maintain telling me. I might WhatsApp her saying, ‘Is this clinically right?’ and all that. Very beneficiant with that—consulting all the data and the nursing tales. Many nurses have helped on this, and we did so many interviews, however she was one of many first individuals I spoke to.

Aayush Sharma: Riku, I wanted to grasp, and clarify to me like I’m a 10-year-old. For you, attending to know in regards to the characters, struggles, and the whole lot else, play a major function in utilizing sure visible methods, like lighting and all. 

Ranabir Das: Yes, completely. It’s not solely about what a personality is feeling or going by at the moment but additionally in regards to the bigger imaginative and prescient of how a director needs the story to be advised. So, with every venture I undertake, I make a acutely aware effort to be as true and trustworthy to the essence of that venture as potential. It’s about making certain that the character’s journey, feelings, and experiences resonate with the general narrative and the director’s artistic imaginative and prescient.

Aayush Sharma: The majority of the movie is in Malayalam, reflecting the truth that many nurses in Mumbai come from Kerala. As somebody who didn’t develop up talking the language, how did you navigate the problem of authentically portraying this linguistic and cultural context? What steps did you are taking to make sure that the nuances of Malayalam-speaking characters have been captured with depth and accuracy?

Payal Kapadia: I’ve to say, it was powerful, and took further time to get this proper. But I had Robin Joy and Naseem, my dialogue writers, who’re each from Kerala and likewise filmmakers. I truly met Robin at FTII, and I’ve at all times favored his writing and quick movies. I needed to work with him as a result of I felt we related effectively emotionally, politically, and by way of our social contexts. So, I introduced him on board nearly two years in the past, in 2022. He then started rewriting the dialogues based mostly on how we had mentioned the characters. For instance, we determined that Anu could be from Palakkad, so we adjusted her accent and even included her particular slang. We additionally labored on how the characters would talk on WhatsApp, utilizing that Gen Z model of texting. Robin and Naseem actually devoted an entire 12 months to rewriting and refining the dialogues.

When we labored with the actors, we’d re-examine the dialogues collectively. The actors would ship their traces, and we’d hearken to the recordings to listen to how they sounded. This course of was important as a result of, in any other case, how would I direct in a language I don’t absolutely perceive, proper? We did quite a lot of rehearsals to assist me get a way of what they have been saying and the way it felt. With Robin’s experience, he’d level out if one thing didn’t sound fairly proper, which was extremely useful. Having somebody like him by my facet made the entire course of smoother and extra genuine.

Aayush Sharma: All We Imagine as Light is a deeply political movie, but a lot of the dialogue round it focuses on its aesthetics or limits its politics to an Indian context, overlooking its common relevance. Have you observed this, and the way do you’re feeling about such interpretations?

Ranabir Das: We’ve tried in our personal manner, although I’m undecided how efficiently it comes by or to what extent we’ve been proper or not. But we’ve tried to incorporate some parts. I believe that, basically, any movie you watch is political, whether or not the filmmakers meant it to be or not. You can learn into it, and also you’ll discover issues which are, in some methods, political. In that sense, there are undoubtedly elements of this movie which are extra immediately political, however the whole lot else additionally turns into one thing to interpret and perceive. Ultimately, everybody may have their very own interpretation.

Payal Kapadia: Yeah, true. But I believe some issues are so deeply rooted for us, just like the context of the papers and the connection, or among the little issues we’ve stored within the movie that we haven’t even subtitled. I really feel like there’s at all times this stability between explaining issues and permitting individuals to really feel them. And we’re at all times combating this stability—how a lot to clarify or for which viewers. So, on the finish of the day, that is the stability we’ve discovered for this movie. We’ll see the way it goes with the subsequent one. But yeah, many individuals don’t absolutely perceive our nation. There are so many issues right here, so many contexts, so many layers. Some individuals even ask me if we communicate “Indian,” and I’m like, no! So, what can we do? Even inside the nation, the humanities typically symbolize only one voice and one opinion. Interpretation will at all times be completely different. I believe even inside our nation, a movie about Delhi might be seen in another way by somebody who’s by no means been there or lived there. All of these items are true, and certainly one of my objectives was to keep away from falling into clichés about nursing, the characters, or the rest. They are simply individuals. There’s nothing you possibly can label as clichéd about their identification. That was one thing I assumed lots about, however once more, that’s the great thing about cinema. You create one thing, then you definately see how individuals react and be taught from it, understanding what you probably did and at all times striving to do higher, I assume.

Aayush Sharma: You are fairly energetic on social media, particularly on Twitter. Recently, you talked in regards to the incorrect facet ratio in theatres. What occurred there?

Payal Kapadia: Don’t make me cry. please. (laughs) But since I posted it on Twitter, a minimum of persons are speaking about it. I’ve observed that persons are going, and the courageous ones are stopping the projection. I don’t perceive that—so many movies should be shot in 1.85:1 a minimum of.

Aayush Sharma: Mr. Hansal Mehta, the director, mentioned on social media {that a} film like ‘All We Imagine As Light’ is failing to get assist from streaming platforms. Was that true? and what did you be taught from that course of?

Ranabir Das: In our case, there’s some curiosity from streaming platforms that producers are .

Payal Kapadia: But the issue is that in our case, since we’re releasing in so many nations, we are able to’t do a global sale. This makes streaming platforms a bit hesitant, I assume—it’s a difficulty for them as all of them need worldwide attain. And we actually needed a launch time. We needed the movie to be in cinemas for an extended period, in order that was one of many factors I put forth—what I may say on this matter. But the opposite factor you’re declaring, distribution is an actual downside. This 12 months, there have been so many movies from India at Cannes. Directors of Indian origin, my batchmate Maisa Malli’s movie was there in ACID. It’s a very nice movie, and I believe it was at MAMI as effectively. We’re getting consideration within the information and the whole lot, however there have been so many movies there. There was Sister of Midnight, there was Santosh, and Girls Will Be Girls, which I believe has executed fairly effectively however didn’t get a cinema launch. So I believe we should always discover a approach to watch our personal nation’s movies within the cinema, even when they’re small. Why can’t we get one slot a day for these movies? Why aren’t exhibitors prepared to take that problem? Anyway, they’ve multiplexes, to allow them to present the massive films, and in the event that they present one smaller movie as soon as a month, it might be excellent. The manner she makes movies is unbelievable, so on her personal, and the movies are improbable. I believe so many individuals would take pleasure in watching them, like schoolchildren. They may do outings and take all the youngsters from some faculties to the cinema. The cinemas may provide discounted costs too.

Ranabir: I really feel that these sorts of interactive issues might be a approach to maintain individuals engaged from a younger age and encourage crucial considering. Cinema can do this as effectively. And concerning your preliminary query about OTT, it’s changing into an more and more tough market basically. When it first got here in, it appeared like there was scope for unbiased cinema. There was additionally some sum of money that filmmakers and producers may entry.

Aayush Sharma: Both the movies that you’re a a part of are mainly unbiased movies. For All We Imagine As Light, you noticed lots backing developing after the film gained at Cannes. Then, Rana Daggubatti bought concerned in it. As somebody who’s deeply concerned on this film, did you see any type of distinction in how the film was taken to theatres or distributors as soon as an individual like Rana bought into the method?

Ranabir Das: Yes, I imply, he additionally has a distribution firm, so in that sense, he is aware of the exhibitors, he understands the market. I don’t know if it’s merely due to his begin, however yeah, as a distributor, he undoubtedly has some quantity of expertise and data on this space.

Payal Kapadia: I believe it actually helped us as a result of he has, particularly within the south, quite a lot of connections. They come from a household of distribution, and he’s additionally placing weight behind the movie. See, we don’t have the funds for large posters or to place it on a bus, and even to have it within the cinema. There weren’t any extra conventional strategies like that. So, speaking to the press and having him there to assist was type of our approach to attain out.

Aayush Sharma: You’ve beforehand highlighted the challenges of securing funding for unbiased movies in India. Could you share extra about your experiences navigating this panorama and the way it formed the journey of bringing ‘All We Imagine as Light’ to life?

Ranabir Das: I imply, initially, it was a bit scary as a result of we didn’t truly know if the movie would ever get made. But our producers gave us some quantity of confidence, and we confronted a number of rejections as effectively. However, as we began getting extra funds and the script started creating additional, we began receiving more cash. With that, we felt extra assured, and we realized that it was a system that helped us.

Payal Kapadia: One factor we realized all through this course of is what a producer actually is. At least within the West, a producer isn’t somebody who has their very own cash or an organization with funds, however slightly, they’re those who can form your venture in a manner that permits you to safe funding from different sources. It’s actually a collaboration. They will learn the venture and, in the event that they consider in it, they gained’t simply agree with you—they may belief their opinion and provide their assist. It’s essential to seek out somebody whose judgment you belief and who additionally believes in you, and who will say, “Okay, let’s do that. Whatever occurs, we’ll make it occur.” We acquired quite a lot of that type of motivation, even from our producer right here in India. He did his finest to get the movie off the bottom, discovering the precise individuals for us to work with, and we ended up with a improbable group of collaborators. All of that’s what makes the movie what it’s—not only one individual, however the collective effort of many individuals coming collectively.

Aayush Sharma: I had the pleasure of interviewing Kani Kusruti, and he or she advised me that you simply (Payal) had envisioned her as Anu. So, how did the change occur?

Payal Kapadia: Yeah, again then, once I was nonetheless a pupil, I wrote about two pages of an idea for the movie, a free thought about two mates who have been nurses. But I hadn’t executed a lot analysis at the moment. It was only a fundamental thought, and I needed to make a 20-minute movie about it. At that point, I had seen her quick movie Memories of a Machine, and I actually favored her efficiency in it, so we needed to forged her as Anu. However, I made a decision to not pursue it for FTII as a result of I felt there was nonetheless lots I wanted to grasp earlier than making this movie. I didn’t really feel like I had the precise connection on the time, so I let it go. After that, I began researching, assembly extra individuals, gathering tales, and ultimately realized it needed to be a function movie. And that, after all, takes time. So I might work on it, then go away it, come again to it, and make one other movie in between. Throughout all this, I stored sending Kanni the script.

I assumed I may not be capable to do it at a youthful age. Both of us had gotten older, and we have been the identical age, so I puzzled, what may I do? But then she mentioned, “Let me attempt for the older one.” Still, I believe I used to be so fixated on her being Anu that it was initially laborious for me to just accept that she may play the older model. But she’s simply such a high quality artist, a beautiful actor, and extremely hardworking. It’s wonderful. She is so inspiring, and I really feel so fortunate to have met her.

Ranabir Das: You know, for Anu, we had seen Divya in ‘Declaration’. Yeah, yeah. And she was enjoying an older character in that movie, so we initially considered her as Prabha.

Aayush Sharma: The movie makes use of magical realism and lyrical parts within the second half. How do you see this mixing of realism and fantasy as a approach to discover the internal worlds of your characters? 

Payal Kapadia: Well, I needed to go from this very day-in-the-life model of metropolis individuals, utilizing broad pictures of a metropolis with a shaky digicam, to go deeper and deeper, till we reached such a detailed level that we may seize the feel of the pores and skin, the hair on the physique, and the grain of sand. We needed to method it as if we have been utilizing a microscope, the place we first present a large shot after which funnel right down to one thing as small because the grain of sand on a person’s physique. The transition from that vérité model to one thing like magical realism felt pure, changing into extra inside. I used to be considering lots about tips on how to specific need, as in our society, it’s not one thing you discuss. How do you say “I like you” in English? How do you say it should you haven’t mentioned it but? It’s tough. We can’t specific these items simply. So I assumed, cinematically, how will she hear it, or what is going to she say? Cinema permits us to talk with out talking. I needed to discover a language in our personal approach to discuss sure issues, and this gave the impression to be the precise manner, a magical one. I used to be considering lots about how this had been executed prior to now.

In Rajasthan, Gujarat, or Karnataka on the western coast, folks tales typically inform tales about longing and the boys who go away as retailers. There’s quite a lot of journey and many ladies’s tales about how they can’t discuss to their husbands. One well-known one is Duvida, the place the husband comes again as a ghost, and he or she falls in love with him, however ultimately, he will get caught. There are tales the place the person turns into a tree or a thief. Sangam poetry additionally makes use of nature to speak about longing. I used to be eager about all these items, in addition to a brief story by Márquez I learn the place a person washes up in a village. While he’s handed out, the ladies begin saying issues like, ‘Oh, he’s so good-looking,’ or, ‘His household will need to have made huge doorways in the home as a result of he’s so tall,’ creating their very own tales. Their needs are projected onto the dead man. So I used to be on this thought of not with the ability to communicate, and the way we begin projecting issues and discover a approach to launch that ache. In my head, all of it simply made sense.

Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’ is enjoying worldwide.