EXCLUSIVE | Payal Kapadia and Ranabir Das on Crafting a Visual Symphony in ‘All We Imagine As Light’

There are solely a handful of Indian movies that defy the traditional description and invite the audiences right into a world that may solely be understood by means of expertise somewhat than clarification. One such movie is Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’. Set in opposition to the bustling but remoted backdrop of Mumbai, this cinematic triumph transcends narrative boundaries to create one thing profound and deeply private. Through a shocking mixture of magical realism and grounded storytelling, it delves into themes of affection, loss, id, and self-discovery. Apart from the storytelling, the cinematography by Ranabir Das, elevates the movie to an ethereal realm, capturing the stark contrasts of Mumbai’s city panorama with poetic finesse. The digicam lingers on the town’s chaos and quiet, utilizing gentle and shadow to reflect the interior worlds of its characters.

The inventive brilliance has not gone unnoticed, as ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT‘ has garnered widespread acclaim and a plethora of prestigious accolades on the worldwide pageant circuit. For Payal and Ranabir, this roaring success is one thing that they by no means imagined, as their focus was solely on telling an genuine and deeply private story. After profitable the Grand Prix accolade at this 12 months’s Cannes, the movie has solidified its place as a landmark in modern Indian cinema. It’s so good to see an Indian filmmaker garnering a lot success on the world stage, and turning into the first-ever feminine filmmaker from India to obtain a Best Director nod on the Golden Globes. Recently, I had the fortune of speaking to Payal Kapadia, and DOP Ranabir Das, about their movie and the way they created such an impressive world the place moments of magical realism are dropped at life by surreal imagery.

Here’s the FULL INTERVIEW:

Aayush Sharma: Congratulations on the unimaginable win for ‘All We Imagine As Light’. The previous few days should have been a whirlwind of feelings, from press engagements to screenings, culminating on this well-deserved triumph. How does it really feel to see all of the laborious work and fervour behind this movie being celebrated on such a grand stage? Has the magnitude of this achievement actually sunk in but?

Payal Kapadia: It’s been actually greater than we ever imagined for the movie. When we have been in Cannes, it already felt so huge. Every time one thing else occurs, we really feel like we need to pinch ourselves. We labored on the movie for a very long time—particularly the 2 of us (Payal and Ranabir Das), since we write collectively as effectively. It’s been a challenge we’ve labored on, on and off, for nearly six or seven years, and intensely over the previous 4 years. Sometimes, you are feeling prefer it’s over, and that itself feels so bizarre.

Aayush Sharma: The metropolis of Mumbai performs such a central function in your movie. How did you strategy portraying Mumbai not simply as a setting however as a personality in itself, with its heartbeat and tales?

Payal Kapadia: I believe it’s as a result of, you already know if you make a movie—or not less than after I make a movie—it’s sort of like a response to your environment. What forces itself into the movie is one thing that considerations you or one thing you see on a regular basis, and also you get bothered by it. The contradictions of Mumbai, I believe, are very a lot a part of our each day life. For the previous 5 years, we’ve been dwelling right here collectively. On one aspect, you see everyone transferring right here—particularly within the movie business—as a result of all our buddies from FTII additionally moved to Mumbai. In some senses, it’s sort of liberating as a result of you’ve gotten your personal sort of freedom right here to do issues. But it’s additionally a metropolis that may be very merciless. It’s a really costly metropolis, not very snug to navigate or journey in on daily basis, contemplating the period of time it takes. There can be fixed gentrification happening. It’s a metropolis that’s at all times in a state of change as a result of the individuals who include loads of problem will also be very simply made to depart. We particularly noticed that throughout the COVID time. It’s additionally a metropolis that’s geographically altering as a result of it’s like an island metropolis that grew to become hooked up to the peninsula. And now, land reclamation can be happening. So even bodily, the town is like an amoeba. I used to be very inquisitive about all this stuff concerning the metropolis, and a few of it makes us very offended additionally.

Ranabir Das: In common, Mumbai is a metropolis the place so many movies are shot. But in only a few movies will we really see the town. We simply needed to doc some senses of now—a time now—that can stay someplace.

Payal Kapadia: Because I believe that Mohammad Ali Road, that space, will even in the future get gentrified and be shot. And I really feel like we needed to additionally bear in mind completely different, completely different locations.

Aayush Sharma: The shift from the bustling city panorama of Mumbai to the serene coastal village marks a big tonal change. How did you conceptualize this transition, and what does it signify within the bigger context of the story?

Ranabir Das: Well, on some ranges, it’s very primary. Like, we simply needed a shift, a change in season. Yeah. Slightly little bit of time has passed by between the earlier occasions and what’s to observe. In that sense, the most important shift, I believe, is that the primary half could be very cloudy, and the second half could be very shiny solar. The coloration palette additionally shifts within the course of. But we needed the second half to have a barely completely different feeling of time as effectively. We needed it to be only one lengthy day, this whole second half. So we needed to really feel the time somewhat bit extra. We needed to be somewhat nearer to the characters. In the town, we at all times included the town somewhat bit within the background or in some airplane. There’s at all times some presence of the town creeping in. But over right here, we needed to be bodily nearer to the characters and be with them extra.

Payal Kapadia: The kind of this village, however our intention not less than was to someplace keep away from that an excessive amount of, okay, and being with the character. Yeah, like that’s why most—not less than what we tried, I don’t know the way a lot of it got here by means of—however loads of time, Riku would bleach out a few of the background when it was a really large shot, for instance, as a result of the daylight wouldn’t sort of, you already know, simply stick with that cliche of a reasonably place. Something that, you already know, that warmth—I don’t know in case you are from Delhi, however I assume in Delhi additionally, in the summertime, that very prime solar is like, it’s not very nice. So that feeling, we needed to sort of get. I believe, yeah, as a result of Mumbai appears to be like so completely different, I believe that distinction has been a lot.

Aayush Sharma: The movie opens with a documentary-style montage of avenue scenes and migrant voices. How did your background in documentary filmmaking form this strategy, and what was your intent behind mixing this fashion with fiction?

Payal Kapadia: You know, like, I believe each of us are very process-driven filmmakers. So loads of time, we find yourself doing loads of analysis and, you already know, not even simply analysis—once we go for location scouting, you sit, you chat with folks, you’ve gotten chai, you eat, or we simply meet folks for the sake of, you already know, understanding issues higher. While doing that, we have been getting loads of completely different tales from folks—folks have been telling us, and our buddies have been additionally telling us. So we needed to maintain the essence of these conversations by some means within the movie, although we didn’t know the way. I believe it was the identical with our earlier movie too—like, loads of the stuff that’s there comes out later due to interactions with actuality. You can think about some issues, you write sure issues, you’ve gotten a script, and the whole lot, after which actuality comes and says, ‘Hello,’ which is good. I actually take pleasure in that, and I believe we actually take pleasure in that. So we needed to maintain a sense of these conversations and random interactions. We additionally felt like by some means it gave a sort of symphony of the town, with all of the folks right here. It’s a metropolis made up of individuals from completely different components of the state, and completely different components of the nation, and also you hear so many languages in Mumbai. It’s a really numerous house. So we needed to have a jhalak of that within the movie.

Ranabir Das: Also, we felt that it was one thing that was treating it like there are such a lot of tales floating round, and we’re coming into one in every of them. Just one factor we’re delving into deeper, after which that fiction additionally turns into somewhat bit extra actual after that.

Aayush Sharma: The movie is devoted to your grandmother and your buddy who’s a nurse. How did their lives and experiences encourage the story of All We Imagine as Light, and what private connections formed your strategy to telling this story?

Payal Kapadia: For me, my grandmother’s story has been a nagging string for all my movies thus far. Every movie has this copy in it. All my brief movies have it. Basically, when she was in her 90s, she began shedding her reminiscence. So, I advised her, simply to sort of maintain the thoughts transferring, ‘Why don’t you write a diary?’ So, she began writing the diary. And by some means, within the diary, this husband of hers used to maintain showing. Now, she was 97 or 96 or one thing like this. Her husband died when she was 50. So, all these years, she was single. But at the moment, it was he who was popping out, coming in her goals and coming nearly like an individual, like a ghost, and was annoying her. So, she was very irritated. I believe she didn’t get together with him very a lot. So, I used to be pondering rather a lot about that, like this sort of factor that loads of ladies round me—like they’re impartial, they’re dwelling alone, working jobs, financially impartial—however these males don’t appear to go. So, I used to be pondering rather a lot about that, and like, sort of, you already know, that our concepts in India, we’ve to take a look at our feminism in a manner, maintaining these sorts of issues in thoughts. At least for me, that is my perspective. Everybody has their very own. So, like, it’s these lingering males who we don’t need them to outline us, however they’re there. Now, what to do? So, that’s sort of what this movie is about. Like, this Prabha additionally, you already know, sort of attempting to depart this chap who simply popped up out of nowhere. So, yeah, that’s it.

For the nurse, she was very open to telling me all concerning the early…like, all these items about studying concerning the placenta, how their coaching was once. So, that’s what obtained me into the nursing career—it’s due to all this. She used to inform me about the way it was for them once they have been college students and, you already know, the sort of issues on a day-to-day foundation, the way it was. So, I obtained very…like, she was very open to maintain telling me. I’d WhatsApp her saying, ‘Is this clinically appropriate?’ and all that. Very beneficiant with that—consulting all the data and the nursing tales. Many nurses have helped on this, and we did so many interviews, however she was one of many first folks I spoke to.

Aayush Sharma: Riku, I wanted to know, and clarify to me like I’m a 10-year-old. For you, attending to know concerning the characters, struggles, and the whole lot else, play a big function in utilizing sure visible methods, like lighting and all. 

Ranabir Das: Yes, completely. It’s not solely about what a personality is feeling or going by means of these days but in addition concerning the bigger imaginative and prescient of how a director desires the story to be advised. So, with every challenge I undertake, I make a acutely aware effort to be as true and trustworthy to the essence of that challenge as doable. It’s about guaranteeing that the character’s journey, feelings, and experiences resonate with the general narrative and the director’s inventive imaginative and prescient.

Aayush Sharma: The majority of the movie is in Malayalam, reflecting the fact that many nurses in Mumbai come from Kerala. As somebody who didn’t develop up talking the language, how did you navigate the problem of authentically portraying this linguistic and cultural context? What steps did you are taking to make sure that the nuances of Malayalam-speaking characters have been captured with depth and accuracy?

Payal Kapadia: I’ve to say, it was robust, and took further time to get this proper. But I had Robin Joy and Naseem, my dialogue writers, who’re each from Kerala and likewise filmmakers. I really met Robin at FTII, and I’ve at all times preferred his writing and brief movies. I needed to work with him as a result of I felt we related effectively emotionally, politically, and when it comes to our social contexts. So, I introduced him on board nearly two years in the past, in 2022. He then started rewriting the dialogues based mostly on how we had mentioned the characters. For instance, we determined that Anu can be from Palakkad, so we adjusted her accent and even included her particular slang. We additionally labored on how the characters would talk on WhatsApp, utilizing that Gen Z fashion of texting. Robin and Naseem actually devoted an entire 12 months to rewriting and refining the dialogues.

When we labored with the actors, we’d re-examine the dialogues collectively. The actors would ship their strains, and we’d hearken to the recordings to listen to how they sounded. This course of was important as a result of, in any other case, how would I direct in a language I don’t totally perceive, proper? We did loads of rehearsals to assist me get a way of what they have been saying and the way it felt. With Robin’s experience, he’d level out if one thing didn’t sound fairly proper, which was extremely useful. Having somebody like him by my aspect made the entire course of smoother and extra genuine.

Aayush Sharma: All We Imagine as Light is a deeply political movie, but a lot of the dialogue round it focuses on its aesthetics or limits its politics to an Indian context, overlooking its common relevance. Have you seen this, and the way do you are feeling about such interpretations?

Ranabir Das: We’ve tried in our personal manner, although I’m undecided how efficiently it comes by means of or to what extent we’ve been proper or not. But we’ve tried to incorporate some parts. I believe that, on the whole, any movie you watch is political, whether or not the filmmakers meant it to be or not. You can learn into it, and also you’ll discover issues which might be, in some methods, political. In that sense, there are positively points of this movie which might be extra instantly political, however the whole lot else additionally turns into one thing to interpret and perceive. Ultimately, everybody may have their very own interpretation.

Payal Kapadia: Yeah, true. But I believe some issues are so deeply rooted for us, just like the context of the papers and the connection, or a few of the little issues we’ve stored within the movie that we haven’t even subtitled. I really feel like there’s at all times this stability between explaining issues and permitting folks to really feel them. And we’re at all times battling this stability—how a lot to elucidate or for which viewers. So, on the finish of the day, that is the stability we’ve discovered for this movie. We’ll see the way it goes with the subsequent one. But yeah, many individuals don’t totally perceive our nation. There are so many issues right here, so many contexts, so many layers. Some folks even ask me if we converse “Indian,” and I’m like, no! So, what can we do? Even throughout the nation, the humanities typically signify only one voice and one opinion. Interpretation will at all times be completely different. I believe even inside our nation, a movie about Delhi will likely be seen in a different way by somebody who’s by no means been there or lived there. All of this stuff are true, and one in every of my targets was to keep away from falling into clichés about nursing, the characters, or the rest. They are simply folks. There’s nothing you’ll be able to label as clichéd about their id. That was one thing I assumed rather a lot about, however once more, that’s the fantastic thing about cinema. You create one thing, then you definitely see how folks react and be taught from it, understanding what you probably did and at all times striving to do higher, I assume.

Aayush Sharma: You are fairly lively on social media, particularly on Twitter. Recently, you talked concerning the incorrect facet ratio in theatres. What occurred there?

Payal Kapadia: Don’t make me cry. please. (laughs) But since I posted it on Twitter, not less than individuals are speaking about it. I’ve seen that individuals are going, and the courageous ones are stopping the projection. I don’t perceive that—so many movies should be shot in 1.85:1 not less than.

Aayush Sharma: Mr. Hansal Mehta, the director, stated on social media {that a} film like ‘All We Imagine As Light’ is failing to get assist from streaming platforms. Was that true? and what did you be taught from that course of?

Ranabir Das: In our case, there may be some curiosity from streaming platforms that producers are .

Payal Kapadia: But the issue is that in our case, since we’re releasing in so many nations, we will’t do a global sale. This makes streaming platforms a bit hesitant, I assume—it’s a problem for them as all of them need worldwide attain. And we actually needed a launch time. We needed the movie to be in cinemas for an extended period, in order that was one of many factors I put forth—what I might say on this matter. But the opposite factor you’re declaring, distribution is an actual drawback. This 12 months, there have been so many movies from India at Cannes. Directors of Indian origin, my batchmate Maisa Malli’s movie was there in ACID. It’s a very nice movie, and I believe it was at MAMI as effectively. We’re getting consideration within the information and the whole lot, however there have been so many movies there. There was Sister of Midnight, there was Santosh, and Girls Will Be Girls, which I believe has completed fairly effectively however didn’t get a cinema launch. So I believe we should always discover a solution to watch our personal nation’s movies within the cinema, even when they’re small. Why can’t we get one slot a day for these movies? Why aren’t exhibitors prepared to take that problem? Anyway, they’ve multiplexes, to allow them to present the massive films, and in the event that they present one smaller movie as soon as a month, it could possibly be excellent. The manner she makes movies is unimaginable, so on her personal, and the movies are improbable. I believe so many individuals would take pleasure in watching them, like schoolchildren. They might do outings and take all the youngsters from some colleges to the cinema. The cinemas might provide discounted costs too.

Ranabir: I really feel that these sorts of interactive issues could possibly be a solution to maintain folks engaged from a younger age and encourage vital pondering. Cinema can try this as effectively. And concerning your preliminary query about OTT, it’s turning into an more and more tough market on the whole. When it first got here in, it appeared like there was scope for impartial cinema. There was additionally some sum of money that filmmakers and producers might entry.

Aayush Sharma: Both the movies that you’re a a part of are mainly impartial movies. For All We Imagine As Light, you noticed rather a lot backing arising after the film received at Cannes. Then, Rana Daggubatti obtained concerned in it. As somebody who’s deeply concerned on this film, did you see any sort of distinction in how the film was taken to theatres or distributors as soon as an individual like Rana obtained into the method?

Ranabir Das: Yes, I imply, he additionally has a distribution firm, so in that sense, he is aware of the exhibitors, he understands the market. I don’t know if it’s merely due to his begin, however yeah, as a distributor, he positively has some quantity of expertise and information on this space.

Payal Kapadia: I believe it actually helped us as a result of he has, particularly within the south, loads of connections. They come from a household of distribution, and he’s additionally placing weight behind the movie. See, we don’t have the price range for large posters or to place it on a bus, and even to have it within the cinema. There weren’t any extra conventional strategies like that. So, speaking to the press and having him there to assist was sort of our solution to attain out.

Aayush Sharma: You’ve beforehand highlighted the challenges of securing funding for impartial movies in India. Could you share extra about your experiences navigating this panorama and the way it formed the journey of bringing ‘All We Imagine as Light’ to life?

Ranabir Das: I imply, initially, it was a bit scary as a result of we didn’t really know if the movie would ever get made. But our producers gave us some quantity of confidence, and we confronted just a few rejections as effectively. However, as we began getting extra funds and the script started growing additional, we began receiving more cash. With that, we felt extra assured, and we realized that it was a system that helped us.

Payal Kapadia: One factor we realized all through this course of is what a producer actually is. At least within the West, a producer isn’t somebody who has their very own cash or an organization with funds, however somewhat, they’re those who can form your challenge in a manner that means that you can safe funding from different sources. It’s actually a collaboration. They will learn the challenge and, in the event that they consider in it, they received’t simply agree with you—they may belief their opinion and provide their assist. It’s vital to seek out somebody whose judgment you belief and who additionally believes in you, and who will say, “Okay, let’s do that. Whatever occurs, we’ll make it occur.” We acquired loads of that sort of motivation, even from our producer right here in India. He did his greatest to get the movie off the bottom, discovering the appropriate folks for us to work with, and we ended up with a improbable workforce of collaborators. All of that’s what makes the movie what it’s—not only one particular person, however the collective effort of many individuals coming collectively.

Aayush Sharma: I had the pleasure of interviewing Kani Kusruti, and he or she advised me that you just (Payal) had envisioned her as Anu. So, how did the change occur?

Payal Kapadia: Yeah, again then, after I was nonetheless a pupil, I wrote about two pages of an idea for the movie, a unfastened thought about two buddies who have been nurses. But I hadn’t completed a lot analysis at the moment. It was only a primary thought, and I needed to make a 20-minute movie about it. At that point, I had seen her brief movie Memories of a Machine, and I actually preferred her efficiency in it, so we needed to solid her as Anu. However, I made a decision to not pursue it for FTII as a result of I felt there was nonetheless rather a lot I wanted to know earlier than making this movie. I didn’t really feel like I had the appropriate connection on the time, so I let it go. After that, I began researching, assembly extra folks, gathering tales, and finally realized it needed to be a characteristic movie. And that, in fact, takes time. So I’d work on it, then go away it, come again to it, and make one other movie in between. Throughout all this, I stored sending Kanni the script.

I assumed I may not be capable of do it at a youthful age. Both of us had gotten older, and we have been the identical age, so I puzzled, what might I do? But then she stated, “Let me strive for the older one.” Still, I believe I used to be so fixated on her being Anu that it was initially laborious for me to just accept that she might play the older model. But she’s simply such a nice artist, an exquisite actor, and extremely hardworking. It’s wonderful. She is so inspiring, and I really feel so fortunate to have met her.

Ranabir Das: You know, for Anu, we had seen Divya in ‘Declaration’. Yeah, yeah. And she was enjoying an older character in that movie, so we initially considered her as Prabha.

Aayush Sharma: The movie makes use of magical realism and lyrical parts within the second half. How do you see this mixing of realism and fantasy as a solution to discover the interior worlds of your characters? 

Payal Kapadia: Well, I needed to go from this very day-in-the-life fashion of metropolis folks, utilizing large pictures of a metropolis with a shaky digicam, to go deeper and deeper, till we reached such an in depth level that we might seize the feel of the pores and skin, the hair on the physique, and the grain of sand. We needed to strategy it as if we have been utilizing a microscope, the place we first present a large shot after which funnel right down to one thing as small because the grain of sand on a person’s physique. The transition from that vérité fashion to one thing like magical realism felt pure, turning into extra inner. I used to be pondering rather a lot about find out how to specific need, as in our society, it’s not one thing you speak about. How do you say “I really like you” in English? How do you say it in case you haven’t stated it but? It’s tough. We can’t specific this stuff simply. So I assumed, cinematically, how will she hear it, or what’s going to she say? Cinema permits us to talk with out talking. I needed to discover a language in our personal solution to speak about sure issues, and this gave the impression to be the appropriate manner, a magical one. I used to be pondering rather a lot about how this had been completed prior to now.

In Rajasthan, Gujarat, or Karnataka on the western coast, people tales typically inform tales about longing and the lads who go away as retailers. There’s loads of journey and many ladies’s tales about how they can’t speak to their husbands. One well-known one is Duvida, the place the husband comes again as a ghost, and he or she falls in love with him, however finally, he will get caught. There are tales the place the person turns into a tree or a thief. Sangam poetry additionally makes use of nature to speak about longing. I used to be fascinated about all this stuff, in addition to a brief story by Márquez I learn the place a person washes up in a village. While he’s handed out, the ladies begin saying issues like, ‘Oh, he’s so good-looking,’ or, ‘His household should have made huge doorways in the home as a result of he’s so tall,’ creating their very own tales. Their needs are projected onto the dead man. So I used to be on this thought of not having the ability to converse, and the way we begin projecting issues and discover a solution to launch that ache. In my head, all of it simply made sense.

Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’ is enjoying worldwide.